What will the Carty bashers do after January 4th….
There has of course been enough to criticize our outgoing mayor on, but here in the Glass City we seem to have developed the art of bashing into almost a sport, with the Mayor being one of the favorite targets of some in the media and some on the internet. During the course of time the Mayor served, I’ve been accused of being a Carty apologist and a Carty basher, which creates some evidence that when you make both sides take issue with you, you’re in the right middle ground…
As we wonder why more don’t want to run for elected office, local, state and nationally, I think one of the reasons why most sane people would not want to enter the political spectrum, especially here, is the lack of respect. Some of us can’t just disagree, we have to try to insult/degrade and this can not be laid at the door of one political philosophy, those who had no problem comparing our last president to a monkey are no better than those who disrespect the current president, those who mocked Jack Ford are no better than those who mocked Carleton Finkbeiner, etc. To me, when you have to insult someone, you demonstrate you really have little of substance to offer but clearly there are those who are amused by elementary age name games.
So, for those of you into that? Here are two perfect examples from two media sources, Toledo City Paper has a piece that includes “Finkledink” and “doo doo” and WSPD’s Brian Wilson’s Toledo Free Press opinion piece that includes “Pantload” and “fecal stench”…
The list of those mocked just on a local level would be long, will the Bell administration escape that from some? Maybe, since Clear Channel ran about 900 editorials endorsing Mike Bell it might spare him the immediate mocking that Keith Wilkowski would have received from WSPD but not other sources. Unless there is a major attitude shift in our city, county, state, nation? Bell will eventually face some of the same insults and diatribes, though here? The goal of civil discussion has not been forsaken, though you will notice in 2010 a few of those who demonstrated continually they were unable to follow the rules are no longer welcome.
Some politicians seem to warrant a little criticism now and then don’t you think?
December 26th, 2009 at 11:39 amI wrote that in my first line, criticism is expected, but there’s a difference between criticizing versus bashing.
December 26th, 2009 at 11:41 amWhat type of language is that Carty has always used with all types of Toledo residents, anger, and even disrespect to
the News Media and others??
Many do not ever use those things themselves but just as Carty some people will no matter what!
December 26th, 2009 at 11:51 amI’ve never subscribed to the “two wrongs make a right” theory of behavior, it’s a justification some do try to make but part of the reason things don’t get solved is the pettiness, division, rancor and vendetta mentality that permeates our area in particular.
December 26th, 2009 at 11:54 amI give WSPD about two years before they forget they helped get Bell elected and they’ll turn on him too, just like they did Carty.
December 26th, 2009 at 12:05 pmThat is what I meant by many people never use it, Lisa Renee, and no two
wrongs never make a right.
As far as Bush, Bush was just Bush!
It appears that Bell does not have that
December 26th, 2009 at 12:09 pmsame approach, etc. as Carty and hope
that Bell is and stays that way because
more issues, etc. will be handled,
taken care, and resolved.
Considering the unpopular decisions he will be forced to make with the budget scenario I’m not sure it will be two years Sensor. He is though not as much of a polarizing person as the outgoing mayor, that will spare him from some of it, but not all.
December 26th, 2009 at 12:13 pmToday’s Quote in Toledo Blade’s Peach Section, Saturday, December 26, 2009:
“They pick a presiden and then for four years they pick on him.”
Does and always will apply to Mayors, Govenors, anyone!
December 26th, 2009 at 1:52 pmCarty deserves to be bashed! Plain and simple. His bullying style didn’t take critsism too well, so only thing left to do is bash.
December 26th, 2009 at 6:12 pmIf we were to bash all of those who had a bullying style, that’d be one thing, but we don’t and some of those doing the bashing don’t act very differently than those they bash.
December 26th, 2009 at 6:57 pmLisa Renee – So, TFP 1) now has Brian Wilson and Dock Treece as columnists, 2) only recently jettisoned now-WSPD shouter Maggie Thurber from their ranks, and 3) once employed WSPD’s Bob Frantz and the road rage guy. All this – and you claim with a straight face that TFP is not Clear Channel’s print auxiliary??
December 26th, 2009 at 11:09 pmWilson is not a columnist, he wrote a guest piece and Dock Treece is not a columnist, his son is. I noticed you didn’t mention the similar writing style of the Toledo City Paper though.
December 26th, 2009 at 11:13 pmYou also forgot, Tim Higgins, Tom Morrissey, Eric McGlade, Terry Biel and Don Burnard, who are columnists which demonstrates you are once again wrong…Not to mention many of the other columnists such as Karl Rundgren or others who have written pieces, Ben Konop, Keith Wilkowski, Joe McNamara…and on and on…
December 26th, 2009 at 11:18 pmNot a Fan of Carty!! As far as Bell, give the man a chance. He has his work cut out for him. We are not going to agree with everything he does, But he has to be better than Mr Temper Carty!!
December 27th, 2009 at 7:51 amKat, you don’t have to be a fan of him, you don’t have to be a fan of any elected official to believe that there should be a basic level of respect. Sujay actually demonstrates the problem here in Toledo, his comment is a perfect example of the selective mentality that exists. He’s for whatever reason decided he hates the Toledo Free Press, yet he ignores a similar column from the Toledo City Paper, a paper he likes. He points out a few yet ignores the many others that make his comment not accurate.
December 27th, 2009 at 11:43 amTo answer the question of the thread I will answer with a question: Will Ben and Marcy still be in public office?
Sujay believes you can’t get as fair as the Joy Behar Show.
December 27th, 2009 at 11:51 pmQuote –
“Respect cannot be learned, purchased or acquired – it can only be earned”
December 28th, 2009 at 7:04 amAuthor: ‘Bits & Pieces’
Source: None
Tolerance implies a respect for another person, not because he is wrong or even because he is right, but because he is human. – John Cogley
The quote speaks to the essence of my belief, we do not treat people with tolerance, we have become a very intolerant nation. The continuing lack of respect demonstrated explains why we are the way we are right now. It’s much easier to bash or to insult than to suggest or to find a common ground or even to listen…
December 28th, 2009 at 10:37 amExcerpt from Chapter 9 of “Twelve Principles” by Martin Hawes:
“When there is respect there is
December 28th, 2009 at 11:32 amhonour. ‘Honour’ is a powerful word, but it has fallen even further into disuse than ‘respect’. It carries a sense of dignity, humility and reverence. To respect a tree is to honour it for its life, its history, its beauty, its mystery. To respect another human human being is to honour that person regardless of gender, age, race, religion, sexual orientation or cultural background; it means not exploiting that person or indulging in activities that contribute to his or her exploitation. Ultimately, to respect is to recognise that all living things are manifestations of the intelligence of the universe – an intelligence vastly beyond the reach of thought or imagination.”
I applaud you Lisa for raising this question and its associated issues.
Carty bashing reached its zenith with Take Back Toledo, and was distastefully supported by local radio and TV personalities whose preference for personal insult is well established and undeserving of thoughtful attention.
I have many friends who supported Take Back Toledo and many others who wouldn’t precisely because of the personal attacks.
On this blog I have frequently argued that elections are our best way to hold current elected folks accountable and select future elected leaders. I thought the TBT effort was wasteful and misdirected and I still do, although I’m aware that some supporters are feeling justified.
Whether it’s formalized in a campaign such as TBT or randomly expressed, bashing in itself accomplishes nothing much. When it becomes distasteful, scatological, or otherwise OFF THE MERITS of an argument or debate, it deserves no respect at all.
Apparently there are those who believe that Carty is somehow to blame for virtually everything that they find wrong with our community and it government. This is a naive and unproductive stance, rendered all the more foolish by his impending departure–a departure I hasten to add that resulted from an election. This unfortunate view is painfully ironic, since to believe it requires a willingness to accord Carty (and other elected folks) more authority and impact than reason suggests is due.
I appreciate GCJ in large part due to your willingness to “police” the commentary and do your best to focus the discussion on the merits of an argument or position. So, again, bravo to you Lisa.
For the bashers and other “chronic aginers” who seem unable to advance positive or progressive ideas and accept responsibility for helping advance them, I offer this comment from an old friend who said that he had “been to 56 countries all over the world and not once had seen a statue to a critic.”
December 28th, 2009 at 11:44 amWell written Rub, at times I wonder if part of our problem is that we at our very essence cling to a monarchical viewpoint. We prefer to blame one figurehead power symbol, whether it be mayor, governor or president, instead of looking at the larger picture as to who was truly responsible.
DD, I’m not going to match quotes with you, we could do that all day, we will have to agree to disagree when it comes to respect and when it comes to who is truly responsible for the current lack of respect, tolerance and incivility.
December 28th, 2009 at 11:57 amLyndon B. Johnson:
“The American city should be a collection of communities where every member has a right to belong. It should be a place where every man feels safe on his streets and in the house of his friends. It should be a place where each individual’s dignity and self-respect is strengthened by the respect and affection of his neighbors. It should be a place where each of us can find the satisfaction and warmth which comes from being a member of the community of man. This is what man sought at the dawn of civilization. It is what we seek today,”
December 28th, 2009 at 11:59 amDD — I have noticed that disrespect can be expressed in very “civilized” language and quiet tones, and that anger, insult, and personal invective depend little if at all on the sound level or presence of profanity.
I have no idea whether you supported former Mayor Jack Ford whose visible demeanor and language were mostly the opposite of Mayor Carty Finkbeiner’s. As a close observer of them both, I can assure you that Ford was at least as angry, demeaning and mean spirited as Finkbeiner, although in much more stealthy (indeed, sneaky) ways. Oddly enough, Finkbeiner’s approach in many ways is more honest since it is essentially more open. On the other hand, Ford (a truly significant intellect) could easily have cited the quotes from LBJ or Hawes that you shared just before he pulled the hidden trap door out from under an opponent.
Let us hope that Toledoans will be very careful to look beyond outward style, and that we will be very clear to our elected leaders that we expect them to be substantive in their work. I think that is our best bet to getting high performance from the Mayor Mike Bell team as well as others we elect.
When we as voters and constituents allow the “background noise” of style and the distractions of the “chronic aginers” to dominate the shaping of expectations for our public leaders, we actually sell ourselves short and encourage cynicism among the elected class.
We must expect the best, and express our expectations in the best and most respectable ways to really get the best from those we elect.
December 28th, 2009 at 1:22 pmPolitical cartoons, Mark Twain, our
humor columnists express in a humorous
way which many are just more or less insults to many and lots of people love to listen to or read and accept those types of ways.
Mark Twain
“The political and commercial morals of the United States are not merely food for laughter, they are an entire banquet.”
Anyone that knows me are quite aware that I and many others detest foul language, etc.
Carty and some others just believe they can use their anger, insults, and disrespect towards some others to show their POWER CARD PLAY!
December 28th, 2009 at 1:53 pmAh yes, my friend Mark Twain.
I always enjoy Will Rogers’ comment that “it’s a darned good thing we don’t get all the government we pay for.”
I enjoy humor, especially political humor, and believe it’s a great vehicle for driving home a point.
I guess I am unwilling to demonize Carty for his particular bad behavior without recognizing the bad behavior of others who might have been a bit quieter in doing it. That’s why my comparison of Carty with Jack.
December 28th, 2009 at 2:23 pmRub of the Green, evidently looks as if we have been given and are going to be getting more in the future of government into everything than we want to pay for or whether we want it at all!
December 28th, 2009 at 3:20 pmPrediction: Toledo’s projected 40 million deficit will give Mayor Bell less than six months before WSPD turns loose the dogs with subliminal racist rantings. Of course this will be based on the needs of WSPD ratings over the good of the city! I hope the new mayor has given this some thought.
December 28th, 2009 at 10:52 pmWell if they are attacking him for a deficit then it’s not racist is it?
Wouldn’t they need to attack him because of his race to be racist?
December 29th, 2009 at 12:36 amMikey needs an example:
December 29th, 2009 at 1:16 amPosted on Brian’s WSPD website (look for pic)
http://wspd.com/pages/brianw.html
Mother get lace front wig for her baby
Monday 12-14-2009 5:28pm ET
SandraRose.com featured this sad story of a mother (her name was kept anonymous, probably better for her safety) who got really sick and tired of her baby being so … bald. “It’s never too early for my baby to start looking glamorous like Beyonce!” said the mother. What did she decide to do about the problem? She gave her kid some long, luxurious locks, natch. Don’t worry, she didn’t get her a weave, which could be painful and dangerous for baby’s head. She got her a less dangerous, yet still fiercely fashionable, lace front wig. “I wouldn’t be caught dead without my lace front and my baby won’t either,” this doting mother explained. OK. I’m not laughing anymore. Does this scare the crap out of anyone else?
Wolfman, that really doesn’t have anything to do with the topic of Mike Bell or Carty Finkbeiner beyond demonstrating that Wilson and others make fun of people. I think most of us were aware of that.
If race were an issue, it seems unlikely they would have supported Bell.
December 29th, 2009 at 1:48 amLisaRenee what I’m saying is they, WSPD, will stoop to anything to garner ratings. They practice social Darwinism. I’m not saying this is specific to WSPD we see this on a national scale also just ax Rush Limbaugh!
December 29th, 2009 at 8:08 amwolfman your second post did not uphold the argument of the first.
Google the word pwned.
December 30th, 2009 at 11:14 pm