Lima Community reacts to “injustice” from both sides…
The community of Lima, Ohio appears to be split when it comes to what happened yesterday with Sergeant Chavalia, 52, being indicted by a special Allen County grand jury for negligent homicide, which is a first-degree misdemeanor punishable by up to 180 days in jail and a $1,000 fine, and negligent assault, a third-degree misdemeanor that carries a maximum sentence of 60 days in jail and a $500 fine. LimaOhio.com has several articles on what happened, including community reaction:
Black leaders had wanted high-level felony charges in the case against the officer who shot and killed Tarika Wilson, 26, during a drug raid. They sat dismayed in an Allen County Common Pleas Court courtroom after a hearing in which Chavalia pleaded not guilty to the two charges. Many others in the packed courtroom shook their heads in anger, as one man said, “We shouldn’t have quit marching,” and another said, “So that’s what a black life is worth.”
Versus comments like this:
this decision was made based solely on fear, plain and simple. A veteran swat officer with his experience is not going to intentionally shoot this young lady and a infant baby. Talk about injustice! WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!
This indictment was political correctness at its worst!! I know. Its beyond shameful, I hope everyone enjoys anarchy!!!
The discussion also focuses on the victim, with many seeming to believe that two wrongs make a right, that the belief that since Tarika Wilson had a criminal record of some kind and the fact that she allowed a man to be in the home that sold drugs that her death and the injury of one year old Sincere was her fault more than the Lima Swat department or any individual officers.
I don’t discount the personal responsibility factor of the initial situation, I think there are two parts to that, a) the parental responsibility factor and b) was this a situation that really necessitated a SWAT raid given the previous drug deals undercover agents had with Anthony Terry. It does not sound as if he was some huge drug dealer and it’s been made clear that police knew there were children in the home. That aspect of this has very little to do with what the grand jury decided yesterday, but it is clear that many in Lima are still divided on what happened and it does not appear that’s going to change any time soon.
In my opinion, the race shouldnt matter. The cops should always get the benefit of the doubt when their life is on the line.
March 18th, 2008 at 3:19 pmThe comments aren’t supported by any facts. Until we know what actually happened, these fools ought to keep their mouths closed.
March 18th, 2008 at 3:25 pmI agree that race shouldn’t matter, but to some race matters because there are those in the black community that feel they are being treated differently by the police department than the white community is. It’s also felt by some this is why the answers they wanted did not come fully or fast enough. It also does not appear there were any weapons in the house other than those brought in by the SWAT team so, the whole question of was the officer’s life at risk while a realistic concern also goes back to was it really necessary for SWAT to go into a home where they knew there were children to bust a small time drug dealer, versus waiting until he was outside, then arrest him.
Not Again, valid point, however considering how long ago this happened and the fact that there has not been much information shared, it gets harder for people on both sides of the issue to wait until all the reports have been released.
March 18th, 2008 at 4:00 pmLisa Said:
“Not Again, valid point, however considering how long ago this happened and the fact that there has not been much information shared, it gets harder for people on both sides of the issue to wait until all the reports have been released.”
Yes, I was thinking the same thing about the karen hancock case.
March 18th, 2008 at 4:08 pmThankfully it took less time to get the truth out in that scenario, but I agree most of these stories follow the “selective outrage” approach which is based on what few facts we do know at the time the media frenzy begins. Some who felt one way feel differently as the story progresses, some feel the same from end to beginning…
March 18th, 2008 at 4:10 pmNot Again,
We do know the facts, a woman was killed and her one year old baby was shot by a policeman sworn to protect and serve. Who would shoot a baby, a policeman fearing for his/her life?
What was going on that the policeman feared for his life, if no other weapons were found other than the ones brought into the house by the Swat team?
March 18th, 2008 at 4:22 pmThis story although sad can be seen in many different ways, in my point of view you can never tell who has a gun or who doesn’t. Keith Dressel wasn’t expecting a gun being pointed at him and then fired at him. With SWAT going in they at least have the extra protection just in case there was a gun present.
March 18th, 2008 at 4:34 pmNow with the assumption that there weren’t any guns in the house sounds a bit weird – the reason why it sounds weird is because not too many drug dealers run around unpacked. It’s sad that the only voice that can tell what happened is that of the officer. I agree with you Lisa that they could of had some kind of sting operation to take him down outside of the house where the scenario of innocent people being shot would be null’d.
I think her oldest daughter, an 8 year old saw her mother being shot. A woman holding a baby would have a hard time concealing a weapon.
March 18th, 2008 at 11:38 pmI also heard at least one of the children witnessed the shooting, and I agree a mother holding a baby would have a hard time also holding some type of a weapon.
I’ve seen the blame the victim mentality happen too many times and each time few of us seem to realize that if we somehow in our minds demean the person who was killed what we are doing is trying to justify a death that shouldn’t be justified. Sometimes it’s done on race, sometimes it’s socio-economic, like the situation when Tammy Cappellety was murdered, the police and the media suggested her murder was drug related implying that she was somehow involved in using drugs.
Therefore, rather than her family being treated like what they were, victims, they ended up with very little community support and it took them months to get her name cleared. There was no outpouring of help from the community for expenses, no concern about how her children were going to survive without a mother like we’ve seen happen to other families who we somehow perceive as more “worthy victims”.
March 19th, 2008 at 1:05 amAnytime any community allows the drug culture and all that it brings with it to become entrenched in their neighborhood then you set yourselves up for “victimhood”. Get out of your house and change your community we all have the power.
March 19th, 2008 at 7:03 amI see where some of you are coming from and in case I’m wrong many people can fire a gun one handed (not saying she could of or did) but it is possible – hell my aunt Mari has a gun permit and I’ve seen her shoot at the range with one hand (yeah the gun was a small one but damage can be done nonetheless). So the statement that one can not hold a baby and shoot is completely wrong.
March 19th, 2008 at 8:23 amNow I do have to send an “I agree with you” to amandablake – you hit the nail right on the head with your comment, although I would like to add that if the knowledge of drugs are in your home and you are not confronting or trying to confront that issue then you are definitely endangering yourself and other innocent people that reside in that home.
Yes, Amanda, what the heck were Sincere and Tarika’s other kids thinking about? They should’ve known their mom was hanging out with a drug dealer and packed their bags long before SWAT showed up. They should’ve at least called ODJFS and reported her.
March 19th, 2008 at 8:27 amOf course, if the lady that was shot and killed did have a gun, then the officer should probably not have been charged at all.
March 19th, 2008 at 8:28 amLisa,
March 19th, 2008 at 9:20 amThis is another benefit of the “War on Drugs”. The police use overwhelmingly excessive, military style assaults to arrest a suspected drug offender. If innocent bystanders get injured or killed, all they have to do is throw the officers involved under the bus and move on to their next perp.
I did not say that it was impossible to hold a baby and a gun at the same time. Of course that is possible. Surely the policeman could differentiate a gun from a baby.
March 19th, 2008 at 9:28 amNo, your right – you said it was hard to conceal. If anything that makes my point all the more true. If you’re holding a baby you’re technically holding it up against you right? Then tucking a small gun between yourself and the baby isn’t that hard to do, now a rifle or an AK47 would be hard to hide.
Well, regardless to the discussion the matter is still under investigation and when the statement(s) comes out we can then determine the next course of conversation(s).
There was a mention of her priors but did they list out what they were? I’m just curious what it was that landed her in trouble.
March 19th, 2008 at 11:21 amWhat difference does it make what her priors were? Even if she had a list which it didn’t sound like it, what difference does that make as far as contributing to her death? Bottom line, SWAT decided to go into the house knowing there was children, they also knew this was not a big time drug dealer from the past drug buys undercovers had with him, while she should have not allowed someone who sold drugs in her home, does that justify dying over that decision?
The fact that the media decided to use the arrest picture of her after she was killed, knowing that she was not the one that they were there to arrest further added to the creation of the belief that somehow she was less of a victim.
March 19th, 2008 at 11:27 amIf her priors included violent acts, it would have made a great deal of difference in the planning of the operation.
March 19th, 2008 at 11:32 amExactly my point, and what exactly is a big time drug dealer. Correct me if I’m wrong but a drug dealer is a drug dealer and with that title placed upon the individual they’re killers whether it’s a child or an adult. I haven’t met a dealer (and trust me – I’ve met a bunch growing up where I did) that said that his/her drug will kill you slowly while the other said that it’s going to be instant kill. It is tragic and a sad loss with what happened but she should of used better judgement when it came to her home now this doesn’t exclude the officer by any means which is why I said that we should sit back wait for the results and then have a conversation on the topic.
March 19th, 2008 at 11:41 amI’m sure that’s what the SWAT team commander was thinking just before they invaded her house…
March 19th, 2008 at 12:52 pm“Every second longer we wait, another person dies from using drugs! Don’t worry about the women and children in the house, this is for the greater good! We’ve got to take this guy down NOW!”
Exactly Craig…
March 19th, 2008 at 1:10 pmWhat I keep asking over and over is why would a mother subject her children to the dangers of living in a drug house???? Her first obligation was to the safety of her children. Her children saw her shot, what else have they seen in that house. Why didn’t her family intervene before something like this happened? Last time I heard dealing drugs was a crime. If I were a police officer in that area no way would I walk into a situation like this. They put their lives on the line. Let all the information come out but ask yourself, why were she and her children living in a drug house?????
March 19th, 2008 at 2:52 pmThere is no evidence that drugs were sold from the house, the previous drug buys involving Anthony Terry did not happen from the house. They happened on the street…
March 19th, 2008 at 2:54 pmYeah because he kept his stash outside in the mail box…
March 19th, 2008 at 3:34 pmCome on people are we seeing that the man was a drug dealer not a drug broker where he holds it in a bonded warehouse for the next order to be placed. Drugs are this and any other dealers bread and butter – do you think they’re going to place their assets elsewhere?
I totally agree with Roman.
Lisa, okay so let say all these drug buys and sells happened on the street. He still was a known drug dealer. Why was she and her children living in a house with a known drug dealer. Why didn’t her family intervene and get her out of that house before a situation happened like this? She or one of her children could have easily been killed because of a drive by shooting or some other form of retaliation by a drug deal gone bad. Why was she living with a known drug dealer?
March 19th, 2008 at 3:46 pmThe question was related to living in a known drug house, it was not a known drug house. If we are going to get into the issue of why did she allow the children to live there with someone who undercover police had purchased drugs from, then the question could also be where was Lima’s Children’s Services in all of this? Why didn’t the police report to their CSB that many minor children were living with a suspected drug dealer. Most likely it was because the concern was not for the children, the concern was to arrest a small time drug dealer. If she as a parent made irresponsible decisions as to who she allowed in her home, there were avenues that could have been taken by the authorities as well. That to me does still not justify her being killed or her death being treated as somehow her level of responsibility is a larger issue than the decision to raid a home with children in it.
It’s like I said, not discounting her personal responsibility factor but given what we do know about the previous drug deals and knowing they did not happen at the house, was it really necessary for there to have been a SWAT raid in the first place started the chain of events that leaded to a death and the injury of an innocent child.
March 19th, 2008 at 4:05 pmThe reason why the cops or any one else for that matter didn’t pass the details on to the proper entities is because the last thing you want is some seperate group crying privacy invasion including such individuals like the mom that would not react pleasantly to outside influences dictating how a mom should raise her kids.
March 19th, 2008 at 4:55 pmLike I said before – let’s sit back and wait for the details to be ironed out.
This is a very interesting thread. Obviously, there’s several opinions and facts(or lack of them) floating about, and while interesting, will it change anything? There are so many ways to look at and examine the situation. Was it SWAT’s fault, was it the dealer’s, or was the mother the author of her own demise by being present in that situaion?
This is a grey area in life, mostly because it’s a combo of all of these factors and several others I’m sure. What I do know is that humans “Grade” sins, God Doesn’t. Example…in God’s eye’s stealing a pack of gum and stealing a million dollars is the same thing. In human law..no where close to eachother. So to, dealing small amounts of drugs or semis full makes no difference.
What does it matter now anyway? She’s still gonna be dead, the cops are not likely to change tactics much and in my experience in a drug ladened neighborhood, I feel very little sympathy for the victims of their own design. It’s tragic that the woman died, that the kid was hurt and that the other kids had to watch it all, but that is a assumed risk in the drug world, be it small or large quantities. I’ve witnessed 1 man holding a semi-automatic to another’s head over a $10 deal gone bad. Life in this lifestyle is dangerous for anyone close by, participants or not.
March 19th, 2008 at 8:27 pmI think that’s exactly the point. The police department’s tactics need to be addressed. SWAT should only be called in as a last resort. A small amount of intelligence gathering before sending in the troops could have prevented this tragedy.
March 20th, 2008 at 7:58 amAs far as this woman being a victim of her own design, both Roman and Chad have publicly admitted to consorting with gun-toting drug dealers. Are your homes now SWAT-worthy?
Craig…
While I live in a neighborhood with a rampant drug dealer problem doesn’t mean I am associated with them. The incident in question occurred on the street right outside my home a week after I bought it between 2 men I had never met. The only reason I know the circumstances involved is they were 20′ from my sun room off my driveway and the windows were open. Since they were yelling and carrying on at the top of their lungs, it was easy to hear what they were arguing about. Both men are now in the custody of the prison system.
After living here for two years and getting to know my surroundings and some of the people there in, I have no sympathy for crack dealers nor their associates, clients, support systems and Zero sympathy for the adults that stay with children in that situation. By and large, drug dealers and their companions are breeding more drug dealers and more crime. There are 5-10 year olds dealing and delivering drugs for adults in my neighborhood. Do they deserve to be shot?..of course not. But the sad reality is that it’s a real possibility in the drug dealer lifestyle that innocent children are victims. How many cases of children being killed in a drive by retaliation have come up in recent years. If it had been a dealer on dealer attack that resulted in the death of that woman and the injury of that child would we even be having this conversation?
March 20th, 2008 at 9:13 amWould we even be having this discussion if the cop was black?
March 20th, 2008 at 9:17 amYes.
March 20th, 2008 at 12:23 pmChad,
March 20th, 2008 at 12:33 pmWe don’t expect crack dealers to respect human life. They do not take a pledge to protect and serve the community. I don’t like the implication that Tarika somehow deserved to get gunned down because a drug dealer was in her house. You live in a neighborhood with drug dealers. If you were to suffer violence while living there, it would never occur to me to think you got your just desserts for choosing to live in that neighborhood.
That is a crappy analogy.
March 20th, 2008 at 12:47 pmAs it turns out, indeed a crackhead did affect my life. In August of 07′ a filthy crackhead pulverized my wife in the street outside my home. Did she deserve to be beaten? No. Was it somewhat her fault for being outside at 11:30 at night in a area where this is known to happen…yes. People are not stupid, by and large. I know where I live and what to expect as a result of that. I totally avoid being in a position that would expand my risk level.
I never said, nor do I believe that Tarika “deserved” what happened. I never said the cop doesn’t bare the responsibility to a degree for the shooting. What I said was, this is what is to be expected in that lifestyle. Drug Dealers, their friends, family and companions are Always at risk. It doesn’t matter if its a dime bag of pot or a truck load of crack..it’s flat out dangerous living and nobody should ever think otherwise.
When we lived in the old south end, a crack head murdered Mary Lou Reily the day before Easter in broad daylight for the $30 in her purse. So obscured was his mentality, that he clocked her with a brick and then choked her to death in front of her 90 year old mother with Mary’s husband 20 feet away in the garage, kids playing football in the street and nearly every neighbor of mine in full sight.
The point is, be it a thimble of crack or a truck load, there is no way to trust or assume there is not imminent danger for any Officer entering a house where this is used, dealt, stored. So to, there is just as much danger for the other persons there, near or involved.
The whole situation is a giant tragedy. Everyone suffers when things go this way. I would hope that in future raids, the police would be more careful, but there is always the unknown elements and you simply cannot plan for that. You cannot avoid enforcing the laws just because someone may be injured or killed. Just like my wife, had Tarika not placed herself in that situation with that man to begin with, she would not have been harmed. There is no 1 person or group to blame here, all involved are equally culpable.
March 20th, 2008 at 1:33 pmChad,
March 20th, 2008 at 3:08 pmForgive me if I hold the Lima police department to a slightly higher standard than the crackhead who killed Mary Lou Reily. The lion’s share of “culpability” lies with those that planned the assault on her home, not the woman inside or her children. There was no immediate threat that mandated their storming of the house, the decision-makers mentality was not “obscured” by mind-bending drugs.
Chad, I can’t imagine what your wife went through. How horrible. I pray she is doing better.
Craig, so do we excuse the crackhead murderer because his faculties were impaired?
Ms. Wilson should never have put herself let alone her children in that situation. She knew what her boyfriend was doing. She knew this was a dangerous lifestyle. I see what happed to Chad’s wife and Mrs. Reily as more of a tragedy than what happend to Ms. Wilson.
March 20th, 2008 at 3:45 pmI view what happened to Ms. Wilson as a tragedy because the people charged with protecting her life were directly responsible for causing her death. I don’t see it as more or less tragic than any other horrible event.
March 20th, 2008 at 4:34 pmI don’t see any intent to harm or kill Ms. Wilson in the actions that took place that night. I seriously doubt that the Officer went in with the desire to shoot a woman. I could be wrong, but my understanding of the events in that house are that the officers ordered her to stay put and she went running… That alone was provocative and with my relationships with family members that are Police Officers here and in other parts of the Country, when these situations get out of hand fast, fast decisions are made. Not always the right decision, not always a smart decision, but when things get hot, things happen.
I agree with Pam in that Wilson was likely fully aware of her man’s activities and she willfully endangered herself and her children to be involved with him. The thing with a lifestyle like this is that they all know the dangers and just don’t care. For some reason, they think they will never be caught up in the crossfire. Sheer stupidity.
In the case of Mrs. Reiley, that was a horrible crime that has left devastation all around. It’s been several years now, and her family is still just crushed. All for a lousy 30 bucks.
In the case of my wife, she was fully aware of the danger and risk to be outside unprotected, yet she felt that she was in no personal danger as she had caused no issues with the guy that assaulted her. What she failed to realize is that you don’t have to do anything to be caught up. Proximity is enough. People that are on drugs like crack, deal in drugs like crack are unstable and unpredictable. The people that are users are even more so. Crack is 1 of if not the most addictive and dangerous street drug out there. It turns normal people into killers.
Ms. Wilson was not the target, but she was in the wrong situation and as a result of her poor choices in life, placed herself and her children in grave danger.
When SWAT or even regular Officers conduct a raid, they employ the surprise and confuse tactic. They knock the door(s) in, storm in and order everyone present to either get on the floor or up against a wall. Had she done exactly what she was told to do, she and her child would likely not have been harmed. She apparently did not follow the order to stay put and that set of the series of tragic events.
I hold the primary target totally responsible because he was not man enough to live a drug/crime free life thereby putting everyone in danger for his actions as a dealer. The cops were doing their job, disrupt and arrest a drug dealer. I have seen the very same type of raids in my neighborhood on nearly a weekly basis. Statistically, this outcome(death) is rare by comparison to the numbers of raids that go on.
March 20th, 2008 at 11:36 pmChad,
March 21st, 2008 at 6:20 amYour last post could not have been more conclusive anf on target.
The drug dealing and using culture all know the “players”, if you allow it in your environment then you are not a victiim, you are a willing participant. The job of any parent is to provide a safe, nuturing environment for their children. Until we are told otherwise that this was the situation (safe and nuturing) then yes I will be judgemental.
amandablake… It’s just common sense and should be common knowledge. The Drug Culture is vast in America. I hear folks all the time saying it’s a poverty thing. “If we fix the poverty, we fix the drug problem”. HA! The only people that can afford to be serious drug users are wealthy. Drugs are expensive. If financial security is the cure, explain then all of the politicos, bankers, lawyers, doctors, business men & women that are nefarious coke users/dealers. Crack is the poor mans coke. It’s not cash levels that make a drug dealer/user…it’s culture and mentality.
I’m sure some think I am cold and mean to have no sympathy for users/dealers. I have my reasons. I don’t know of any person that was forced to become a dealer/user. It’s a choice. People can blame it on poverty all they like, it’s bullshit. It’s human weakness. Right now, I could seriously use the money I could make as a dealer but I’d drag my naked body through broken glass before I’d do such a thing.
I have a very personal knowledge of the damage drugs can do. My oldest brother had promise to join the Olympic Diving team right out of highschool. He was a brilliant diver and could have had a brilliant life. Instead, he hooked up with some looser friends and became a drug addict. Not just a weed head, no, he went for coke and heiron and fried out his brains, became a theif, a criminal and has spent most of his adult life in and out of mental hospitals and jails. We did everything in the beginning to get him help, get him clean etc. He chose to remain what he had become. My entire family has written him off. We have nothing to do with him as his chosen addiction even caused him to steal from his own family. He stole the family silver and hocked it, he stole $20 out of my Aunt’s purse during a baby shower for my younger brother’s child, he no longer has any moral fiber, concience or respect. All he cares about is his next high and he’d kill for it if he wasn’t such a whimp. He is what has been refered to here as a petty dealer. His actions are not “petty” to those he has affected with his infected life. We are all relieved when he’s incarcerated as we are then safe again, for a time.
How does this story relate to the Lima situation?..culture. Ms. Wilson’s world was steeped in this culture by her relationship with the dealer. Her choices prove she just didn’t care and people that just don’t care are the most dangerous of all people.
With regard to her parental skills(lack of them) and her children. That’s another topic/thread all on it’s own. Alive or dead, that woman had no business to have any children in her care based on her life choices. It is the duty and responsibility of all of us to protect and secure each and every child no matter what the cost. We as a society fail at this miserably. Sure, we want CSD or some other organization to go in a save the kids from such evils so long as it’s at no personal cost. We want the children taken from these homes…but are mostly unwilling to take them into our own homes and become that involved. Nope, we want the Nanny Gov. to take care of it and then we can sleep at night. HA! CSD will tell you any day of the week they do not have enough foster care providers or adoptive parents to fill the need that already exists. So what would they do with the thousands of kids right here in Ohio if they were to permenatly seize these kids from their hack parents? As it is, CSD has custody of so many kids that come from these drug infested homes and they have nowhere to place them so they are in a breached system that cannot support long term and are forced to try to fix the birth parent(s) or lose the kid through the cracks in the system. I think it’s in the neighborhood of 5% of these parents that get it together and can have the children returned to them, and that’s after 18 months of treatment. So in the failure of the systems to protect children we have created an Orphan State that is a direct result of an unwilling general public to be a true part of the solution.
March 21st, 2008 at 7:47 amI am a true believer in the phrase “Follow the money” who is bringing the drugs into this country? Therin you find the answer to who controls the “drug culture”.
March 21st, 2008 at 9:06 amChad,
March 22nd, 2008 at 11:00 amI never said Sgt. Chevalia went in the house with the intent to shoot someone. I said the police had no business entering the house in that manner when they knew that innocent women and children were present. It is the responsibility of the police to protect and serve its citizenry. They should take every precaution when exercising the use of deadly force. They are the ones with the guns.
Feel free to bloviate about the drug culture and the devastation done to Mrs. Rieley’s friends and family. Tarika Wilson’s friends and family are also devastated. The excessive use of military style tactics and incarceration to wage war on the drug culture has led to packed prisons and state’s crying about their budgets but NO decrease in drug use at all. Yet another tragedy of justice.
Craig….
I’m a firm believer in that sloppy work is bad. This was a sad case of political posturing and bad decision making in the onset. However, it does not absolve the people in the house for their crimes. I’m not willing to string up the officer for doing his job, even with a tragic result. If you want to hang someone for this then look no further than the Lima Police Chief. After all, It was his order to bring SWAT in. From what I’ve heard and cannot confirm, it was a political decision in an effort to embarrass the property owner.
As for the failure of the “War On Drugs”, what exactly is your solution to arrest and incarcerate the dealers and users? Send em all to NA or AA and just forgive the crimes committed in the process? Excuse their behavior by allowing the cop-out that their financial or emotional lives are the root cause? I’m not that interested in people that intentionally waste their lives and lay waste to children and adults to make money.
I have an idea, why don’t we make all recreational drugs legal, tax the piss out of it and use the money to buy everyone a conscience and some morality.
March 22nd, 2008 at 10:16 pmChad,
March 25th, 2008 at 7:36 amRegarding the police chief and political posturing, that’s what I’ve been saying throughout this post. The decisions to use SWAT and send them in were equally inexcusable.
Regarding the “War on Drugs”, I won’t pretend to know all of the answers but I do know that longer, harsher prison sentences and $500,000,000,000 of our money hasn’t put a dent in drug use. Performing the same actions repeatedly and somehow expecting a different result is the definition of insanity. We have to change our tactics because we are losing the “war”.