Sources say Mayor Finkbeiner told Marines to leave
Interesting story from Fox Toledo, City Forces Marines Withdrawal. Seems as if the Company A, 1st Battalion 24th Marines reservists of Grand Rapids, Mich., who were conducting an urban warfare exercise Friday in Downtown Toledo, were told to leave. This type of military practice has been held downtown in the past and it’s being reported that our Mayor is somehow involved as per Fox Toledo:
Major Dan Whisnant, an officer with the reserve unit conducting the exercise downtown, confirms it was the Office of the Mayor of Toledo who told the Marines to stop and leave the city.
Right before 5 p.m., “Alpha Company” packed up their stuff near the Madison Avenue, Huron and Erie streets corridor and Promenade Park, and headed back to their camp in Michigan.
In checking other newsites in Toledo, it appears Fox is the only one who has reported on this story so far, more updates are expected so you might want to keep your eye on Fox…
Grand Rapids is also reporting the story….
February 8th, 2008 at 9:48 pmOh My God! Ok.. now that we all realize he’s gone over the edge….
Who in their right mind throws the Marines out??!!
This is another reason, moving directly to the TOP of the chart, to remove this man from office. Once the National Media gets ahold of this…it’s going to turn into a circus. If it wasn’t before, Toledo will be the laughing, shamed stock of the whole freakin country. Imagine Bill O’Reily and other strong National TV hosts with this stunt of Finkbeiner’s. Their staffers will investigate Him and the City and every skeleton will hit the National News.
Sorry Rockets…this one, not even you can defend. They have come here as long as I’ve been here and to have the Mayor trow them out is outrageous. He clearly doesn’t care about the ramifications of his actions and trowing the MARINES out is so amazingly stupid!
February 8th, 2008 at 10:24 pmHave you ever encountered one of these operations? When I did, I didn’t know it was training. I thought we were under some kind of attack. Or that Carty was on the loose….
February 8th, 2008 at 10:25 pmI have encountered them and there could be a better job done as far as letting people know in advance that there is going to be a military operation in Downtown but I still don’t understand why they would be told to leave. It’s clear that the Police Department knew they were coming to be able to cordon off streets and the reality is it is good training for them should they ever face any type of an urban emergency…
I have a feeling this story will make the national news and once again Toledo will be in the spotlight for something we don’t want to be known for…
February 8th, 2008 at 10:28 pmWhat can I say, I’m shocked.
NOT!
mayor Ready-Fire-Aim takes another one in the foot.
And, we get to live it down. . .
February 8th, 2008 at 10:42 pm(shakes head) ….and we didn’t get enough signatures.
February 8th, 2008 at 11:21 pmSaw on the news that the reason they were asked to leave was because last time they were here, some residents were upset. But, um, why didn’t they tell them no when they asked to come rather than wait till they get here and then toss ‘em out?
February 9th, 2008 at 12:03 amReally, I was downtown today and they closed off Madison at Huron. Carty was right. The city only allowed this exercise because we have so many empty buildings. Though I question the authenticity of this story, if Carty kicked them out, good. Those empty buildings, and closed Toledo streets, should only be used for profit. Create a film commission here, and get hollywood to come here. I’m sure they’d be more than willing to shoot in downtown for the prices Toledo is offering – hell, they’ll shut down the street for free for the federal government, imagine the benefit to hollywood and toledo… one dollar is better than nothing. And I doubt anyone would mind.
February 9th, 2008 at 2:29 amKurt…I hope you stop and think for just a moment. For several years now we as a city have allowed the Marines to do exactly what was planned the past two days. If something changed? Then it should have been stated as such. It’s not cool to let that many people come this far and then treat them with such disrespect…
February 9th, 2008 at 2:49 am“Such training sessions have been held in Toledo before. But this latest issue could be addressed in Washington, D.C.”
No need to worry about the publicity, it is on the way.
February 9th, 2008 at 5:00 amPersonally, I’m looking forward to the fallout.
What was that about Homeland Security funding?
I’m sorry…..hello? hello?
Hey Kurt, how is that “progressive” website filled with your opinion doing again?
hello? hello?
dang phone…
February 9th, 2008 at 5:42 amI wouldn’t be suprised to see all federal funding to Toledo ended for this brazen disrespect to our military.
The feds are afraid to cut off San Fransico for their “progressive” stunts, but it would be easy for the feds to make an example of Toledo.
February 9th, 2008 at 7:23 amThe mayor can go to hell. And Lisa, to address your comment in #4- the news media has been reporting all week that this exercise was going to be taking place.
February 9th, 2008 at 8:24 amAlso, I’m going to be contacting City Council to ask that some kind of action be taken against the mayor. I’m not sure what exactly can be done but it’s worth a try.
February 9th, 2008 at 8:37 amI’m not going to be an expert here or overact to this new story like some people in here. Why can’t they do it in Grand Rapids downtown or Kalamazoo, Battle Creek, Lansing, Ann Arbor, Jackson, South Bend or even Fort Wayne. Of all the cities in between Toledo and Grand Rapids, there was ample of opportunity to do this. I for one remembered this exercise in the past but when you have the Regional RV convention this weekend, businesses, arena construction, theatre, traffic and the restaurants, I would be too asking the Marines to go somewhere else.
I read newspapers and watch TV news all this past week, and there was no media blurb about this. This could well be a communication break-down between police and mayor, so by closing Madison & Huron is a disruption to traffic and businesses.
February 9th, 2008 at 8:44 am“Toledo police knew days in advance about their plans for a three-day exercise. Yet somehow the memo never made it to Mayor Finkbeiner, who ordered the Marines out yesterday afternoon just minutes before their buses were to arrive.
“The mayor asked them to leave because they frighten people,” said Brian Schwartz, the mayor’s spokesman.”
http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080209/NEWS16/802090394
February 9th, 2008 at 9:10 amNo Media “blurb” about positive aspects of the military, like training that could save both military and civilian lives………..SHOCKING! But that is another rant for another thread.
For the first time in awhile I am so stunned I am not sure where to start.
Get the word out more clearly so the citizens are aware. Sure.
But other than that issue, Carty’s method, thought process (assumption) and tactics are incredible, even for him.
This training is essential for the military and beneficial to civilians, to that extent, it does not necessarily hurt to have it unannounced – but once in place some notification is prudent – signs etc.
It seems people forget that we are within 1 hr of two nuclear power plants, several major airports, and the massive natural resources of the great lakes. We should all have at least some concept and familiarity with coordinated military and civilian training in our urban setting.
Economics – $$ — ok, where were these 200+ marines staying, where was their pocket change going off duty, where was their coffee, water, and grub coming from? Yes they are likely largely self contained and supported, but some of that cash would have trickled down. (Let’s see who catches that nugget).
The big picture, home-land security, federal funding impact is yet to been seen.
The national embarrassment I am learning is just part of living in Toledo.
Sadly
The A-Hole
February 9th, 2008 at 9:24 amRockets, I listen to the noon news on Channel 11 every day and this was reported on there everyday.
February 9th, 2008 at 9:26 amIt was on 13 news at least twice prior to Friday. This military trainning exercise has gone on for several years here. If the Marines had come to Toledo to perform a duty aside from training..don’tcha suppose we’d have an idea as to why? The Military doesn’t show up out of the blue that often.
To say that it interupts the activities of downtown is silly. Especially on the weekend. On any given week after the 5 o’clock bell Friday, downtown becomes nearly empty.
The point here is that Finkbeiner once again causes Toledo un-nessecary embarassment and has all but proven Toledo to be an unfriendly place. The very idea to charge the Marines to use Toledo for training is crazy. The Military is part of all of us and our safety. By charging them, we charge ourselves as Tax Dollars pay for the whole thing.
A week from now, everyone will be saying, wholly crap, what has he done?
February 9th, 2008 at 9:26 amWhy can’t they do it in Grand Rapids downtown or Kalamazoo, Battle Creek, Lansing, Ann Arbor, Jackson, South Bend or even Fort Wayne. Of all the cities in between Toledo and Grand Rapids, there was ample of opportunity to do this.
Anywhere but in my backyard? Guess I missed the part where the Marines declared they were protecting all those other backyards but yours!
America isn’t at war, the American Military is at War…right?
What a shameful way to treat our young men and women defending us.
If you need some education on what sorts of men and women you rejected read this story. For Shame Toledo.
http://www.blackfive.net/main/2007/08/godspeed-corpor.html
STOKES
Celebrating the life of a fallen warrior
By Sgt. Andy Hurt
NEAR KARMAH, Iraq (August 5, 2007) – Corporal Sean A. Stokes, who was killed July 30 in Al Anbar province, is a legend. Not because his body now lay still, rather because he lived a life of selfless devotion and valor that those who hear his story will never forget.
The warriors who know the tale of Sean Stokes – the young private who took point in Fallujah, or the compassionate selfless Marine who put nothing before the safety of his brothers – will tell his story for ages to come. Those who have not yet heard of Sean Stokes needn’t look far. True accounts of his actions in Fallujah saturate the internet, and Stokes’ name peppers mainstream non-fiction war stories. His name is synonymous with heroism and passion, and the more we can tell his story, the more we honor his life and the hundreds of warriors like Stokes who have gone before us and fill our ranks.
February 9th, 2008 at 9:26 amFallujah will go down in Marine History as one of the toughest urban battles and some of you want to deny young Marines training to help them face the future Fallujahs?
February 9th, 2008 at 9:28 am“Anywhere but in my backyard? Guess I missed the part where the Marines declared they were protecting all those other backyards but yours!
America isn’t at war, the American Military is at War…right?
What a shameful way to treat our young men and women defending us.”
And you think it’s just peachy to force our soldiers to ride eight hours in a bus to train when they could be running exercises in their own city? These are reservists who put their lives on hold to serve the country. The least we can do is let them train close to home. I wouldn’t want the Marines from Perrysburg having to train in Grand Rapids, I’d rather they train in Toledo.
February 9th, 2008 at 9:39 amAnd think about this: We were just up on the “Risk” lists, bringing more funding to our city for Homeland Security. What are the odds that check gets mailed? What are the odds that after yesterday’s mayoral stunt we shoot to the bottom of response time should a problem happen here?
Suppose that since we’re not available for training purposes any longer that the Pentegon decides to remove all military activity from the hostile enviorment? That base we’re so happy to have and proud of at the Airport may just pack up and leave. There are all kinds of possibilities that can spawn from an insensitive action like yesterdays.
Who comes to help when there are natural disastors? Who comes to help when floods, tornadoes, bridge collapses, terrorist activity and all that happens? That would be the Military. Finkbeiner is not the only one with an ego, the Military powers that be have a sizable one of their own.
Military activity/training is expensive and time consuming to plan for and execute. That was our tax dollars that were totally wasted yesterday by his actions.
February 9th, 2008 at 9:42 amTo prove you wrong, Rockets:
February 9th, 2008 at 9:44 amhttp://abclocal.go.com/wtvg/story?section=news/local&id=5944126
The mayor told the Marines to leave because the training exercise frightened residents.
But residents are frequently frightened about lots of things. Residents are not just frightened about things that are merely simulations, but other things which are indeed real.
Isn’t it ironic that the the mayor sprang into action based on calming residents’ illegitimate fear? It’s fear based on something which is pretend, yet the mayor fails to respond to residents who have legitimate reasons to be afraid based on reality?
February 9th, 2008 at 9:48 am#22, training in familiar surroundings is not the most effective way to train. You must train in un-familiar locales so that the elements of the unknown are present.
February 9th, 2008 at 9:56 am“Who comes to help when there are natural disastors?”
No one at first, then FEMA, the Coast Guard, Sean Penn, and Blackwater.
February 9th, 2008 at 9:57 am#22, training in familiar surroundings is not the most effective way to train. You must train in un-familiar locales so that the elements of the unknown are present.
Or not.
February 9th, 2008 at 10:01 amFrom 2004…are you serious? And furthermore, it’s ok for P-burg but not for GR? What’s the difference?
February 9th, 2008 at 10:04 amWell, Jay on #25, in Carty’s mind, the fear of the Marines is real and the fear of gang violence is just a figment of your imagination.
February 9th, 2008 at 10:22 am#30
Brian, I would agree with the mayor that the fear of the Marines doing exercises in Toledo is real fear, but the reasons for that fear are irrational and illegitimate.
That would have been a good opportunity for the mayor to have told residents that there’s nothing to be afraid of. It’s like a fire drill at school–it’s pretend.
February 9th, 2008 at 10:40 amJust spoke with the Major in Grand Rapids. He had some interesting things to say which I’ll share with you on Monday.
February 9th, 2008 at 11:15 amOK, the media blurb was during the noon-hour news and the link Dell_Diva provided came up with nothing. How about a notification in the paper? How about proper notification to the downtown residents and business owners of some sort?
Downtown is not nearly empty after 5p.m. as good ol’ Chad claims, you have to consider the residents, convention, businesses and others that is happening after 5p.m. and during weekends. I’m so sick of people saying the usual for no consideration to the downtown area. Consider the small business owners, consider the residents, consider the hotel customers, consider the convention goers, it’s all taxes invested in the downtown and the city.
I am not against military or lack thereof, but if you are going to close any streets (i.e. festivals, parades, etc) you have to file for a permit with the city to do so. Obviously the communication between police and mayor didn’t happen, so there’s a lesson to be learned for future purposes. IMHO, There is more to the story as to whatever the local media claimed so let’s not get all riled up over it or wished the recall-the-mayor petition had more “valid” signatures to get rid of the mayor.
It is evident and predictable that the same group of people will always be emotional and outraged about Carty (no matter what the story is) through Toledo Talk, Swamp Bubbles, Glass City Jungle, etc, etc. I am NOT defending or excusing the mayor at any level, but this is the guy the majority of the voters is this community elected him back in office. I say it’s time for ya’ll to eat the crow until his term is up.
Will it affect the Homeland Security funds for this region? I highly doubt it.
How would you like for the military to do such activity in YOUR neighborhood for 3 days? Consider that for once with all the patriotic and political emotions aside.
Why can’t such activity be an abandoned industrial building on Hamilton Street, or Walbridge school (as suggested) or abundance of vacant houses like Old Towne Neighborhood???
February 9th, 2008 at 11:21 amA little fear is probably healthy from time to time. Being complacent is the real enemy of a free society.
I’m a talk first until you can’t talk anymore and shoot last kind of guy. I did not support our entry into Iraq which was based on a trumped up case which relied heavily upon the emotions of fear and revenge.
But I understand that one must be prepared.
You must be able to protect yourself and to react when an emergency occurs. The Mayor could have held another of his famous new conferences to explain to Toledo residents what was happening and why Toledo was proud to assist. Another “shoot first” and “think later” response by “Toledo’s number one cheerleader”.
I’m pretty sick of this idea that it is okay as long as it is in someone else’s backyard. I certainly don’t want my backyard to bear the brunt of the sacrifices all the time, but 2 days a year. Well, seems a “little fear” is a rather small price.
February 9th, 2008 at 11:21 amWell if Fred isn’t drumming up the ratings for his upcoming Monday show, isn’t THAT quite interesting.
February 9th, 2008 at 11:23 amJayott, I don’t think the fear is irrational or illegitimate if residents don’t know the exercises are underway. I know from first-hand experience what it was like to be in their midst (it was on Monroe Street, and the street was open when I saw them). Not knowing why there are guys in uniform all over the place holding big guns and looking vigilant and serious, taking up positions at buildings and in parking lots was scary. I pulled into a gas station to ask one of the guys standing there with a gun what was going on. It was clear he’d been told not to talk to civilians. He stared straight ahead and didn’t respond. Finally I told him it was frightening me and the children in my car. So without looking at us and even without moving his mouth much he was able to tell us it was training.
Now, having said that, I don’t think that’s a reason to call off the training. Diva tells us this was all over the news in the days leading up to the training. I watch the news every day and read the Blade’s site and never saw a report. But I don’t hang on through the whole broadcast when watching TV — I just grab the top stories. Apparently the mayor watches the news the same way I do. And many people don’t follow the news at all, so I like the suggestion posted by someone up thread that there be signs posted where the training is taking place. It’s sad that a training exercise was thwarted at least temporarily by the mayor’s rather knee-jerk reaction (they’ve now been welcomed by Grand Rapids). It seems he did zero thinking upon learning later than everyone else what was planned for a city this weekend. Still, as is so often the case with Carty, he had a certain logic and even a concern for us. I’ll give him a half point for that.
But, Jayott, what you said about the mayor not removing the genuine causes for alarm really hit me. You’re absolutely right. The neighborhoods struggling with decay and fighting drug houses go on suffering while Carty refuses to put another police class in place and while he gets rid of the morning SWAT operation and while he thinks a handful of officers assigned to drug investigations is just dandy.
Carty needs to take care of all that and more. And he should get in his car and drive to Grand Rapids today to apologize in person to the Marines. Or maybe we should.
February 9th, 2008 at 11:38 amRockets, it’s in the written column under that “TV” thing…about halfway down. The date on the post is Feb 1st.
Wouldn’t you think having any kind of military presence familiar with downtown should something happen be a priority?
Not that having a military contingent swarming about while you’re passing through get the adrenaline rushing, but for Homeland Security sake, I’d feel better knowing there won’t be a brigade of soldiers milling about because they don’t know where to go in a crisis.
February 9th, 2008 at 11:50 amI wasn’t singling you out Rockets, sorry about that. I just wandered into a paragraph without the proper seguey.
My apologies.
February 9th, 2008 at 11:53 amI wonder if Carty will have to take $10,000 out of his flower budget to repay the Marines for the dough they wasted setting up here. That’s what a quote in the Blade says this fiasco cost them.
February 9th, 2008 at 11:56 amHey Rocket….
Your looking silly defending Carty all the time. His loyal supports are dwindling in droves. The man is a complete embarrassment to the city of Toledo and Northwest Ohio. Your just like the guy who started the paddle-boat business. When was the last time we heard from? He was going to take over this town with Caty’s support…(cricket sound).
What the mayor did was disrespectful to the hard men and women who defend our right for freedom everyday, they put there country above all else and to be treated this way is shameful.
When the truth comes out about this, and the real reason the mayor ask them to leave, and I believe the major has told Fred this, let’s see how much you defend the mayor then.
February 9th, 2008 at 12:46 pmHockey, get your head out of the hole for once and I am NOT defending the mayor. I am trying to be objective of what happened from all sides of the “story” while putting things in perspective from a business and resident standpoint. You cannot tell me that you are going to sit here and decide what’s what based on some media coverage on the story from “couple of sources.” Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight…let me know when pigs fly.
I’m sooooo sure that the truth will come on Freddie’s show since he is the MAN of the town and expert for all of us. He is in the business to make money and secure his job. The television, paper, and radio media are in the business to make money from you folks to feed into either truthful, mis-truth, or half-truth stories. Last time I checked, the media is NOT the source to be fact finders. If it wasn’t for Carty, I am certain Freddie would not be working at WSPD right now.
February 9th, 2008 at 1:08 pmIt’s spelled Freddy
February 9th, 2008 at 1:51 pmLOL Fred. I bet Rockets wouldn’t be spewing the same opinion on the media coverage if they were to come out with a “Carty is awesome” story.
February 9th, 2008 at 2:06 pm
February 9th, 2008 at 2:06 pmdell_diva, they did come out with a “Carty is awesome” story, but it was a quote from Finkbeiner himself.
February 9th, 2008 at 2:17 pmIt seems that NBC24 is finally reporting something, some 22 hours after FOX Toledo first reported it, and nearly six hours after the Toledo Blade post their story. Good job FOX Toledo for getting the word out hours ahead of time.
But it seems that there is a new door open in the NBC24 story in that former Toledo Police Chief Jack Smith, a former Marine, had a heated conversation with Mayor Finkbeiner on day about the Grand Rapids reservists conducting urban warfare exercises in Toledo back in 2006. Mayor Finkbeiner told then Chief Smith that the Marine reservists from Grand Rapids to not return, but the request was never conveyed to all parties — military, police, and new city officials.
So, basically a breakdown in communication from all levels.
And being a current member of the 180th Fighter Wing, Ohio Air National Guard, and a 12-year Air Force active veteran (active, reserve and national guard), I do not understand why the Mayor decided to pull the plug and say the Marines “frighten” Toledoans. I mean, F-16 Stingers from Swanton fly over the city all the time protecting our air space and conducting normal training maneuvers. Is the mayor saying the “military” is frightening in general or just the Marines? If that’s the case, then 1st Battalion, 24th Marines Weapon Company in Perrysburg should never cross into Toledo, exercise or no exercise, for fear a “military member” might scare someone downtown.
Come on mayor, I’ve met you on a few occasions, even dressed in my uniform. I’ve walked down Madison Avenue to work, even in my battle dress uniform (fatigues) and my dress blues of a proud Airman. I receive compliments, thank yous for serving. At least you, Mr. Mayor, could have extended the courtesy and let the Marines stay and play in Toledo and then never again.
Can you pay Alpha Company $10,000 for their troubles? Oh, that’s right, Toledo is in the hole and can’t balance its budget.
February 9th, 2008 at 2:41 pmWe are in red letters on Drudge now. It’s going to be all over now. Drudge will post something then the media follows up. Get ready!
February 9th, 2008 at 2:46 pmOooh nooo! Drudge????!!!! Oh, Carty, Carty, Carty….
February 9th, 2008 at 2:51 pmNBC24 did a far better news story coverage than FOX 36 and The Blade combined. There is always more to the story and kudos for NBC24 for doing their homework.
Here is the link: http://nbc24.com/news/news_story.aspx?id=94192
a2grafix, I commend your post and I understand your feeling about why the mayor pulled it. (Disclaimer: I am not defending or excusing the mayor) Maybe he pulled it due to citizens and businesses complaining the lack of notification of such exercise which would cause a bit of an uneasiness. I have heard in the past from other people and business owners WANT notification of such exercise because it is wild watching the Marines do the urban warfare.
With the restaurants, convention, hotels, businesses, library, stores, and etc that are opened, it can be stressful that customers and visitors would be discouraged. I am all for economic opportunities and extremely sensitive to those businesses because they work hard. Can you imagine if they did such exercise at Westfield Franklin Park with the same circumstances? It would be more outcry from businesses because they need the sales and patrons to keep flowing.
February 9th, 2008 at 2:51 pmDrudge Report is in the same league with TMZ and Perez Hilton. Give me a break, it’s not the end of the world.
February 9th, 2008 at 2:54 pmDrudge has the story on his Web site.
Carty better get some media combat training. And soon.
You ready Rockets?
February 9th, 2008 at 3:10 pmAs ready for a nap…lol. Now if Glass City Jungle had a link on Drudge Report, I would be flying out of Toledo right now.
February 9th, 2008 at 3:13 pmLet’s hope that never happens then Rockets…
February 9th, 2008 at 3:15 pmI read the AP version where it said the last combat was 2006 and I can see how the communication would be broken down. Unfortunately, it’s becoming a news story when the story about shooting in Louisiana, Kirwood, and Chicago and others should be more important.
It will be all forgotten by this coming Tuesday.
February 9th, 2008 at 3:23 pmHaving worked for a website, I can tell you that a link on Drudge can bring you a half million hits in a three-hour window. People who never heard of Toledo before now know how we support the troops.
February 9th, 2008 at 3:29 pmFront page of Fox spews now, too.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,330197,00.html
They are still thanking Toledo for that live feed a few years ago from the helicopter during the North end/Klan riots. Of course they will report it!
February 9th, 2008 at 3:35 pmI wonder why they prefer Toledo to Detroit? Maybe Detroit is too dangerous, or “realistic” for them. Or perhaps so many units are using Detroit already that they have to settle for a second-rate city like Toledo. Or maybe Detroit wouldn’t allow the Marines to train there, either. Certainly it would be a bummer to try to train in Ann Arbor with all the “peaceniks” they probably have there. I wonder where they’ll be able to get their urban training after this if they are being turned down by Ann Arbor, Detroit, and Toledo. Maybe the President needs to declare martial law, and let the Marines do what they need to do, and to hell with any old ladies who have heart attacks.
February 9th, 2008 at 3:36 pmAnonymous…you have that right…and the rest of us in outside America, not in your rust belt, despirately needing a federal bailout…are darn mad at your Mayor, and do not intend to let it go.
Here is a copy of letters sent by my organization targeting Toledo manufacturers, and a parallel letter was sent to associates in the purchasing world to activate like actions from their organizations as well.. Your mayor is over the line, and the city will pay for your allowing an imbecile like that to get elected.
Gentlemen,
Please be advised that neither I nor my organization will purchase any Chrysler products containing any parts manufactured in Toledo due to the unbelievable cancellation by Toledo Mayor Carleton Finkbeiner of the military training operations scheduled for operation in Toledo, having sanction and permission by the police chief, and having been appropriately publicized to the public. His unreasonable and unilateral actions prove that he personally has no respect for the training needs of the US military in order to protect his city and its industry and citizens, as well as the rest of our fine contry. Additionally, he has squandered taxpayer funds wasted by the abortion of this program after is was well underway and personnel and equipment had already been deployed to the area. This email is being distributed as well to other industrial and commercial businesses in Toledo, with the same resolve. Your organization in our opinion, should contact the Mayor and explain the difficulty he has caused for his city with his immature and selfish acts.
Sincerely,
February 9th, 2008 at 3:59 pmJoseph Levine, CEO
NLFC, Inc.
Mr. Levine, while I understand your position, I’d ask that you re-consider. The workers of those at places like Chrysler are not the ones who should bear the burden of the Mayor’s actions.
Expecting some sort of an apology and even reimbursing the $10,000 might be something you could consider demanding.
February 9th, 2008 at 4:14 pmThe apology should come from Fink’s mouth, and not PIO Schwartz.
The $10,000 should come from Fink’s pocket, and not the city of Toledo.
February 9th, 2008 at 4:39 pm“The apology should come from Fink’s mouth, and not PIO Schwartz.”
When was the last time that the Mayor apologized without being forced too?
February 9th, 2008 at 4:48 pmAnd after the apology, maybe he could explain how & why his depts aren’t communicating effectively with each other. There wouldn’t be a story if it had been handled by adults. Right ?
February 9th, 2008 at 4:56 pmWhile I would NEVER try to understand anything Carty does, I do know that I heard about this training earlier this week on the radio. Guess the mayor missed that memo.
I think it’s just his way of grandstanding yet again.
And really, it isn’t as if there are THAT many people downtown on any given winter weekend…so they might have frightened oh maybe 20 people. It’s FREEZING outside…who is downtown just wandering around hoping to run into some Marines?
February 9th, 2008 at 5:09 pmLisaRenee:
I have no sympathy whatsoever for any citizen of Toledo, Chrysler employee, or Plastex or otherwise, in this matter. It is there job to bounce an anti-American public servant.
These marines, 200 of them, in FIVE bus loads, left their wives and families for a miserable training task to be held in Toledo. The have just come back from serving their country in IRAQ, where they were also away from wives and families…and not, denied reasonable training, which they will still have to undergo, after this aborted mission by the mayor of all those Chrysler employees that only consider their own paychecks and jobs important, will have to again leave their homes…go to another location where the mayor is not a sociopathic egomaniac…and do this all over again. When the Chrysler employees get back from service THEIR country in Iraq, I will worry about their needs.
They will have to tough it out, and now we will also try our best to get all Federal Funds diverted away from any and all Federally funded projects in Toledo….and when you people get tired of it, you can impeach your mayor, appologize to the marines, and the rest of America will believe you are in the same country with us.
NOTE:
Marine reserve training sessions have been held in Toledo in years past, but this latest issue could be addressed by the Marine Reserve Headquarters Command in Washington, D.C.
Alpha Company returned to Grand Rapids at around 9 p.m. Friday evening with five bus loads of reservists. Of the 200, 180 Marines were participating in the urban warfare exercises.
Rescheduling the planned urban warfare exercise in the Glass City this weekend could come at a hefty pricetag. It will be rescheduled some time and will be held in Western Michigan, says LIN Television affiliate WOOD-TV.
Alpha Company recently deployed to Iraq, returning in April 2007.
February 9th, 2008 at 5:17 pmUmmm…Joe ? Did you think the good citizens of Toledo were going to “bounce the anti-American public servant” TODAY ?? No sympathy ?
You sound like military, I might be okay with you watching my back in combat but otherwise… you’re a little scary.
Give the people of Toledo a break, mmkay ?
February 9th, 2008 at 5:36 pmWe will have to agree to disagree then, Mr. Levine, as a life long Toledo area resident, I disagree with being punitive towards those who had no role in the decision being made to tell the Marines to leave.
Members of my family have a long tradition of serving their country in the armed services and while I agree that Alpha Company was not treated with the amount of respect they deserved, there is no possible way to meet your suggestion of what it would take to convince you that the majority of the residents in this area are in the same country you are. Residents of this area are currently in Iraq and Afghanistan now at this moment and we do support our military forces here despite the actions of the Mayor yesterday. Many of us are especially proud of our 180th Fighter Wing, this summer Ohio Air National Guard Maj. Kevin Sonnenberg died in the service of his country in Iraq. He was not the first nor will he probably be the last resident of our area who sacrificed their life in service of our country.
February 9th, 2008 at 5:43 pmIf Mayor Finkbeiner is guilty as charged, at least he could have suggested the Marines train near that foreign shrine in Perrysburg, considering that’s the religion of choice among most terrorists. We are still free to speak the plain truth, yes?
Behind the Veil of Islam
February 9th, 2008 at 6:00 pmIt’s really amazing how everyone loves to be controlled. You all are being groomed for things to come. In the past, they didn’t need to use civilians for training. The last time I checked I had rights! The right not to be subjected to training drills and illegal searches. What will it take for people to wake up? A series of accidents from training drills? Like the earlier post said, “Why not Detroit?”, probably because someone would get hurt. I believe the military is only to be used in times of national emergency (In a limited capacity) or war. I didn’t think training among civilians was part of it. If I wanted to train with them, I would have jointed years ago. The military has been used in many situations that civil servants used to perform. There have been many reports from around the country where military personnel have been used for road blocks and check-points. This is wrong according to the constitution.
February 9th, 2008 at 6:40 pmI feel sorry for the soldiers. They are pawns in big brothers game.
This whole the thing is an absolute disgrace. We all have to suffer for this administration actions all the time. More fall out will come.
And rocket stop spuying your crap!! You constantly defend the mayor and his actions. I am sure if anyone had the gonads to agree with me in this blog they would. But for some reason everyone is afraid to speak there mind when you post your Pro Carty BS. You make Idiotic statements about the drudge-report, the number one news source on the web. Millions of hits an hour. Oh I know just tabloid news….. Right.
Mr. Levine, I apologize to you from the many residents of Toledo and Northwest Ohio who DO NOT support or CONDONE anything this mayor or his administration does.
Now maybe the rest of you can stand up and do the right thing, and apologize also. But I won’t hold my breath.
February 9th, 2008 at 7:07 pmHey Rocket and the rest of you Carty lovers:
Go to the NBC 24 web link on the story and read what the country thinks of your mayor you support so strongly.
You better have some tissues!!
February 9th, 2008 at 7:16 pmLet’s just call this “Training” what it really is, a marshal law drill. You all need to get used to this type of thing, because when it does happen, you won’t be as alarmed. We’re all so busy just trying to get by each day that our government has taken everything from us without our knowledge (value of the dollar). My advice, which is worth whatever you want it to be worth, is to stay in and stock up!
February 9th, 2008 at 7:25 pmFound this on the Internet: “NLFC Inc 8150 N Central Expy Ste 1600 Dallas, TX 75206-1815 214-750-7050; Fax: 214-891-1891 Robert C. Lewis, CEO Hospitals, Clinics/Group Practices, Multifacility Organization Total installed: 127+ Price range: $250,000 to $2 million Hardware/Operating system: HP, Sequent, IBM, UNIX”. Mr. Levine must have taken over as CEO fairly recently, or his company could be another NLFC, Inc. (although this was the only one that came up when “googled”
. Other NFLCs included churches in Marietta, GA and a “football club” in Great Britain. There are lots of Joseph Levines. I wouldn’t worry too much about his efforts to bring this town to its knees. That had been happening “naturally” without any help from a revengeful capitalist.
February 9th, 2008 at 7:46 pmToledo must look more beatup that Detroit if they need to come to our backyard to “play”. And you would think that Ann Arbor would have welcomed their manly advances. But we get the crap. As if this city doesn’t have enough to worry about we now have to answer for the reluctance of a few to listen to gunfire in the downtown. Jesus Christ, get over it. That’s nothing new in my neighborhood. We could have sold them a few corn dogs before they left.
February 9th, 2008 at 7:58 pmLisa…while I understand your reasoning to not punish the population for the Mayor’s actions, who then can be punished? The Mayor? Not really, it was by a majority vote and/or lack of a majority vote that put him back in office. Shamefully, I was one of those votes and I have for a year tried to reverse that decision. Perhaps by being punitive to the masses, we will in effect get the changes we need so much. If this or any number of his other actions bring hardship to the city, then just maybe the population will get the big picture..at long last.
What should happen and what will likely happen are very different things. What should happen, he should take this as his cue to quit. What will happen is he will deny, defame someone else, and then he will count the days until something takes it out of the news. Council will continue to be cowards and fail to say or do anything because they cannot agree on what kind of toilet paper to use, so unifying against this malicious betrayal of trust, honor and sacrifice will not bring harmony either.
What has come to my attention and others I’m sure is that this very well could be part of his tried and true tactic to deflect attention from other issues that are of importance to Toledoans. The whole Budget, the trash fee/tax, the 3/4 % tax and on………and on. If by making a baffoon of himself he can deflect the angst of the increasingly disrupted public, so much the better eh? Likely, he just stepped in crap again and now he’s once again stinking up the place.
This is 2 hugely negative issues he’s brought down in under a week.
February 9th, 2008 at 7:59 pmHockeyless, don’t be so bitter. There’s always two sides of every voters…supporters and opposition. I have an abundance of bitter pills for ya if needed, especially when you are still hung up on the fact the arena is being built on the west side of the river not the EAST side.
February 9th, 2008 at 8:06 pmWell, the Mayor is the one responsible unless there was a way to identify all of those who voted him into office the last election and they were also included in the “who is responsible” department.
I just don’t see the value in having the whole city dissed or face the possible loss of dollars based on the Mayor telling the Marines to leave. I also know the Mayor is not going to quit, this is a situation where it’s clear no one advised the Mayor (or he didn’t listen) to what the possible consequences of this action could be. If he really felt that he had instructed Chief Police Smith to make sure they did not return and then discovered that was not done, the appropriate thing would have been to let them stay and make sure that they were informed that next year they had to find a different location. It would have saved the City another moment of “fame” over something few of us want to be known over.
February 9th, 2008 at 8:07 pmI am amaze people don’t look at this from the other side of the issue just to be at least objective about it. But if the name Carty comes up, forget about it.
February 9th, 2008 at 8:08 pmLisa, no matter what you say or how logistical you say it, most folks are not going to see it that way. It’s the cultural thing here in Toledo when it comes to a man name Carty. I agree with your insights but sometimes I wonder if we are just basically talking to the blank wall.
February 9th, 2008 at 8:10 pm“don’t look at this from the other side of the issue”
What is the other side?
February 9th, 2008 at 8:17 pm“I just don’t see the value in having the whole city dissed or face the possible loss of dollars based on the Mayor telling the Marines to leave.”
The comments I have read on other sources are aimed at the Mayor and not the city as a whole.
He is the leader and when leaders fail to act appropriately, well, people talk.
February 9th, 2008 at 8:19 pmNC, if you re-read all the past posts I’ve made then you would understand. But apparently that’s not the case because I am being bogged down as a Carty supporter. Forget about constructive dialogue in this topic.
February 9th, 2008 at 8:19 pm“NC, if you re-read all the past posts I’ve made then you would understand. But apparently that’s not the case because I am being bogged down as a Carty supporter.”
Well, you have quiped about Chad, Drudge report, the inconsistent communication between the police and the Mayor.
But this comes along.
“It is evident and predictable that the same group of people will always be emotional and outraged about Carty (no matter what the story is) through Toledo Talk, Swamp Bubbles, Glass City Jungle, etc, etc.”
The actions by the Mayor have hit nationwide and at a time when emotions for the armed forces are running high and the issue of protecting the homeland is on the agenda, and the administration handled this situation poorly.
People, across the country, do not care for the actions he took.
It is more, now, than a local issue.
You don’t care for people commenting on the Mayor and his continued actions and want people to stop and let it go.
We could ask the same of him, stop it and change, after all we were getting the New Carty.
February 9th, 2008 at 8:31 pmRocket you are so predictable…. Deflect…. Bitter about the Arena…
Yep that has everything to do with this topic… I don’t even live on the east-side…. Your responses are pointless. Just like your mayor.
This whole situation is shameful but your to “blind sided” to see the reality of this. You just post deflecting statements.
Bitter …your dam right!! And so should everyone else who lives in this tax whole.
February 9th, 2008 at 8:47 pmNC, point taken. Since this has blown out on the national level it is wise for me to stay out of it. The point I was trying to make was from a view of why does Toledo need the urban warfare activity. Why can’t other cities host the Marines or stay in Michigan where they are from? From a small business and resident standpoint of downtown, why here? The convention and hotels are busy during the weekend, how will this impact them? Where was the public notice so the community is aware? So many relevant questions go unanswered and unacknowledged, so why even bother.
Hockeyless, just because someone has a different opinion or “seems” to be a Carty supporter in your eyes you don’t have to pick a fight. I agree the whole situation is shameful but by insulting to those who may have a different opinion does not make you “right”.
February 9th, 2008 at 9:00 pm“The point I was trying to make was from a view of why does Toledo need the urban warfare activity.”
Need?
From what I have read the reservists were practicing here for some time, and it would seem that the city leadership was okay with the city being used for the practice.
“Why can’t other cities host the Marines or stay in Michigan where they are from? From a small business and resident standpoint of downtown, why here?”
Someone in the audience may be able to address the past practice of the reservists.
But then again, why can’t Toledo. People are scared seems to be a bit of a weak excuse.
It is but a small inconvenience for the residents and business owners, heck some might have made a few dollars what with some hungry troops.
February 9th, 2008 at 9:05 pmI don’t want to see the Citizens suffer and take retribution for the actions of 1 man. However, basicly that is what has been going on for months, if not years already. In one form or another, we’re paying the price of failed leadership and policy here in Toledo.
February 9th, 2008 at 9:08 pmSmall inconvenience for three days? I think the residents and businesses DESERVE to be notified about this activity instead of some tiny blurb on a weekday noon news or buried in the website in small prints.
February 9th, 2008 at 9:09 pmThe selection of “why Toledo” is a good question Rockets, I’m not sure if there were any conventions in town this weekend but that’s also a good point. While it’s been pointed out that there was media on this, it’s also clear that some of us did not know it was happening this weekend.
February 9th, 2008 at 9:10 pmChad, call up Tim or Tom to start the recall again and get it over with. But this time DON’T BURN THE PAPERS like you did the last time.
February 9th, 2008 at 9:11 pmLisa, the Regional RV Convention is here at the Seagate this weekend (Feb. 8-10). Media or no media, the police department should’ve notified the community of such event, we always know if there’s a street closing for parade or festival, right?
February 9th, 2008 at 9:13 pmI don’t disagree with you at all that the media coverage on this was less than satisfactory, in fact had there been more coverage than perhaps someone would have mentioned it to the Mayor before the Marines were on their way down here…
February 9th, 2008 at 9:16 pmThis was an issue two years ago and the mayor made it clear for that not to happen again. I wonder what’s the level of priority did the employees take when he mentioned it the first time around. I surprised the media didn’t pick it up during the Jack Smith dibacle since the Marines were here last in 2006.
February 9th, 2008 at 9:20 pmI’m kinda stumped that Carty “allegedly” addressed Chief Smith with this, entered a “heated argument” and failed to address his (Carty’s) intentions to prohibit our Marines from training downtown to anyone else except Jack.
Why did Carty not make his pronouncement public at the time? He does everything else. Even had this “incident” happened in 2006 as it has been “alleged” to have happened between Jack and Carty, it would have made the news, and it didn’t.
Brian Schwartz, as the official Public Information Officer, should have noticed the media mentioning this event in the news, no matter how small the posting, and with Brian being the PIO in 2006, he would have been aware of Carty’s intentions to prohibit our Marines from training downtown, put 2+2 together, and brought Carty up to speed, seeing it’s apparent Carty dosen’t read the news of the local media either.
Nope, the onus is squarely on Carty and Carty only.
February 9th, 2008 at 9:23 pmfunny Rockets, I was wondering the same thing
February 9th, 2008 at 9:24 pmI agree with you Brian for every line you’ve posted above. Perhaps it’s time to replace Brian Schwartz because he seems to be reactive not proactive when it comes to working for a very emotionally charged mayor. IMHO, this is waaaay out of Brian’s league in handling this issue.
February 9th, 2008 at 9:26 pmUmmmmmm….. Deflectors…..
They have done this before with absolutely NO PROBLEMS!!!!
Again I will say… And Lisa maybe you can find this out with your savvy relationship with the media. There is a reason why this happened, and when that comes out, you all better practice your deflection capabilities….
Really… Really you don’t think the mayor knew about this… Bitching about street closings,( WOW).. a new low….
February 9th, 2008 at 9:27 pmHockeyless, I think if he would have known about it before hand he would have prevented it then, at least sparing them the drive down here then back home.
I’m working on finding out as much as I can as far as who knew what when.
February 9th, 2008 at 9:31 pmhockeyless, obviously you are emotionally charged like our mayor and may I suggest you stop overexaggerating my posts.
February 9th, 2008 at 9:32 pmhockeyless, let me make my stance clear.
I am all about allowing the military to utilize any environment available they need to train properly to hone the skills of soldiering. I don’t see a problem using an urban environment as Toledo provides for enhanced training.
Especially seeing it’s on a dead February weekend and everybody in Toledo and vicinity except our mayor and his “associates” knew this event was taking place.
There is no excuse for the humiliating debacle Carty forced upon the community, and trust me on this, there will be severe rammifications because of his decision. And the community will suffer because again he, the person you elected mayor, has given Toledo another black eye.
February 9th, 2008 at 9:37 pmRockets…
Ya never know, I just might. Can I count on you for help?
February 9th, 2008 at 9:41 pm“I’m working on finding out as much as I can as far as who knew what when.”
Just an observation, but, the former chief of police had a dispute with the Mayor and seems that have misunderstood what the Mayor meant or wanted and the former chief failed to address the reservists coming to Toledo and when the police informed the administration members none of them seemed to know about the Mayoral order.
Who’s on first, once more.
February 9th, 2008 at 10:15 pmA story about this particular group of Marines. What an honorable group of men/women:
February 9th, 2008 at 10:48 pmhttp://www.wzzm13.com/news/local/grmetro_article.aspx?storyid=73720
Whatever…..
I have wasted enough time …..
Time to move
February 10th, 2008 at 12:08 amWell this thing blew up since I last checked. Lisa Renee asked me to “think about this.” I’ve thought about it and stand by what I say. The fact is that city streets were closed, and the mayor may or may not have known about it. When city streets are closed, there better be a good reason, and the only reason I find acceptable is economic gain. This exercise provided no such gain. Indeed, the whole exercise seems like a waste of time, Grand Rapids has buildings and alleys too. I typically don’t agree with Carty, but I don’t see any reason to shut down our streets downtown unless it provides any economic gain.
For a solution, perhaps the Feds and the locals can work out a deal where money is pouring in for a change. Carty was dead on with this issue, despite how you all might feel. The bottom line is Toledo is not bitch.
February 10th, 2008 at 3:11 amAin’t nothing like a good ol’ fashioned sorree Sunday afternoon with Carty and Co. with the various members of this unit to have some BBQ and a chance for Carty to explain his reasoning.
The point was that Carty didn’t know the soldiers were in town and everyone else did.
Let the troops train then let them know they’re not welcome back after the event was over, personally.
But nope, the “shoot then ask” mayor drops the ball again.
Whether you agree or not the training is a distraction to all those downtown, it was something soldiers needed and those voicing against this just show how accomodating they are to our Armed Forces. It’s been going on for years, and if the few that fail to read/watch media and are caught by surprise should just appreciate seeing our military at work.
But be ready, because before you know it, these soldiers will have their boots against the back of your neck and are going to put their ammo into your brain if you’re not watching. It’s almost “Martial Law” time in Toledo!
Friggen amazing what runs amok in the community.
February 10th, 2008 at 4:51 amOh, and what a surprise that Kurt is all about the money.
Sorry bubba, but if that’s what you’re concerned about, let me clue you in on something.
Homeland Security Funding.
You can pay for it now.
February 10th, 2008 at 5:00 amprogressivetoledo@gmail.com should come out of the closet. It is not money he is worried about, this is just a front to hide his kooky berkley and san fransican tendencies.
I hope this whole blowup will be a reminder to these kooky far left liberals, that the aniti military behavior won’t fly here.
Now is the time to kick Carty the kook to the curb.
February 10th, 2008 at 6:47 amI just progessively barfed!!!
Nothing like supporting your military.
February 10th, 2008 at 11:11 amWhat an appalling greeting to our brothers and sisters in the military, wow! Is this how we welcome others to our town? As a Toledo taxpayer I am truly ashamed and enraged. My/Our tax dollars paid for the marines to come here and practice. Not to mention we took them away from their homes and families for nothing! We paid the police to do work that wasn’t needed and they could have been patrolling our streets keeping our city safer. I truly disagree with the mayor’s decision and hope he decides to do the right thing and welcome them back. When he does – WE as a town should hold a ticker tape parade for them. After all, these men and women are willing to sacrifice their lives to allow us to continue living in freedom. Say what you want about the war, about Bush, about anything else, but don’t disrespect our good brothers and sisters in the military.
Wars are created by men and women of power who rarely feel the crisp breeze of the battlefield. Battles are fought by brave men and women who are willing to hold their buddies hand and promise him/her they will tell their parents they died valiantly. We owe much gratitude and respect to the men and women of the military; who train and fight to allow all Americans to live in a free country. I ask the mayor —— Please treat them with honor and respect and welcome them back.
Once again Toledo will receive negative publicity across the world because of close-minded, unrealistic people like Mayor Finkbeiner. WAKE UP TOLEDO! It’s time for change and we all need to do our part, vote wisely next time. Lastly, keep in mind fellow citizens. If Toledo were to suffer the horrible attack of a malicious party
(see this article ) http://www.nbc24.com/news/news_story.aspx?id=91190
The men and women that our mayor so unpleasantly welcomed to our town could be the same ones who would give their lives on the streets of Toledo to keep us free.
Dear Company A, 1st Battalion, 24th Marines –
Please accept this apology on behalf of myself and other like minded Toledoans. I for one welcome you back with open arms. Thank you for your sacrifice!
DM
February 10th, 2008 at 7:30 pmThe thing about this situation, that I find most irritating is that Carty waited until the Marines were already here (or on their way here) and that the practice area had been set up. Wasted a whole bunch of money.
I find it slightly amusing that he has offered up the Northtown Square Mall or Jones Junior High as an alternative. Does he even have the power to do that? I mean the building downtown was city owned. I’m under the impression that Northtown is privately owned and that Jones belongs to TPS (and is in a residential neighborhood – more people to freak out).
February 11th, 2008 at 5:22 pmThere’s not 10,000 to 14,000 people around Jones Junior High.
February 11th, 2008 at 5:40 pmI don’t know what rock Rocket lives under but not only has this been going on for years about the same time every year but it’s been reported by every network at different times the week prior. Maybe not every network every time. But the word was out well enough and business owners who’ve been around for more than just a year know about it too. If they don’t- it’s of no inconvenience to them because it’s not close enough to their business.
Toledo was just added to the list of likely targets of terrorism last month. I think a little less whining and a little more understanding of the situation is in order.
Carty is a fool and this is just one more chapter to a legacy of foolishness.
February 11th, 2008 at 6:15 pmstory on fox news in 2 minutes
February 11th, 2008 at 6:27 pmchannel 43 for the cnn crowd
February 11th, 2008 at 6:28 pmI highly doubt there are ever 10,000 people in downtown Toledo on a weekend afternoon in Feb.
February 12th, 2008 at 3:43 pm[...] Finest Police Cars | Concept CarsDefense and the National Interest Is this the Iraqi Tet? Glass City Jungle | Sources say Mayor Finkbeiner told Marines to leave Tags speed and agility strength training workout strength training speed training agility ladder [...]
June 17th, 2008 at 10:11 pm